Todd McClay

Uh well, yes, we did, actually. Uh I mean, you will have seen that we started at 10% on Liberation Day, then it went up to 15%. The US courts found that they hadn't used the right legal base for uh the tariffs are put on all countries of the world, which meant that they were illegal. They put uh just 10% in for 150 days and started a number of investigations, so we expected this. I I'm currently in Paris at the OECD, and so some of those other countries that were in the same club with uh the UK, uh, Switzerland, Australia, Chile are of the same view that I am, irrespective of what anybody has done. America's putting the tariff regime back in place and looking for a new legal base. At 12 and a half percent, that's actually probably lower than I thought it was going to be. I thought they just put the state 15% back in. But a country like Australia that was at 10% all the way through, uh, may well be going higher.

Well well, uh um so we will certainly make the case that it's unreasonable, it's unfair it shouldn't happen. And New Zealand and other countries continue to do that, because if we don't, then then ultimately you've got to stand up for trade and trade rules. Here at the OECD, there are about 30 countries. In fact, we've just walked out of a uh a mini ministerial meeting for the WGO where we're talking about the importance of trade rules, and there isn't anybody saying that what's happening out of the US is a good thing. In fact, they're saying that you know it's creating great uncertainty, it's harder for everybody's exporters, uh, and ultimately that uncertainty leads to you know to costs and so on. What is also happening though is that uh many of the countries are finding ways to work together away from the US, getting barriers down and creating the the certainty. So whether it is worthwhile or not, we will always make the case of the US that these uh tariffs are wrong, they shouldn't be imposing them upon New Zealand. We are not, you know, harming their trade at all. I will be having officials going up to make that case, but here they are the president is gonna do what the president's gonna do.

Yeah, that yeah, that's right. Look, I expect it's probably going to be launched over the next week or two. Um the the U.S. has said they will give us a firm heads up so that we can be very well prepared. But as you just said in the introduction, uh, this is just part of the U.S. looking at how they put that tariff war back in place because you know, the the US Supreme Court found that what they'd done was illegal. So we're expecting an investigation. I don't think there will be any tariffs uh anytime soon. It probably will take some time to work through, but it is just another bit of uncertainty for New Zealand exporters into the U.S. market.

They they don't need lamb, and that's a bit of the point where it's probably easy to put some sort of sanction on if they want to. But the point here is that lamb consumption of the US has gone up considerably as a result of the marketing efforts of New Zealand and Australia, and the price goes up with it. So this is good for um US lamb producers, ironically. We'll be making that case. Uh I'll be sending officials over. I'll be meeting with my counterpart in a couple of weeks uh in Paris at the OECD. We're making this case. We'll get a fair hearing, but it's just as I said a bit more unspeakable.

Yeah, so lamb, wool, kiwifruit, a lot in the horse sector, apples. For the very first time, we've got a quota of apples with a lower tariff rate. We sell quite a bit of apples up in there. But think of it this way, Jamie, 1.4 billion people in India. If all they do is eat one lamb chop each or one apple each, we just don't have enough to supply them. This agreement is about future-proofing the New Zealand economy. And, you know, I talked about the New Zealand exporters up there excited. Actually, the amount of media attention that New Zealand, a little tiny country in the bottom of the world, got in India is quite breathtaking. They're really up for it there. They're celebrating the agreement. They see it's going to bring the countries more closely together. And, you know, in Parliament, I reckon we should just roll up our sleeves and get on with it, work hard and get this blooming thing in place.

You've got to remember the tariff rate on New Zealand wine at the moment is 150%. If we can get our agreement in force and place before the EU, we benefit further. We get a lower tariff rate than what we negotiated. So that's why we want to go really hard. I think for the wine industry alone, that's tens of millions of dollars extra every year. And in the services trade, actually, while I was up there, a New Zealand company, VeloCity, signed a $20 million deal with India's third largest bank. I think India's third largest bank is bigger than all of our banks put together, and so if we get this agreement in clause pretty quickly before the EU, we get even better access for people that want to go out there and do services trade. So that's why Parliament's going to roll its sleeves up, and we're going to get on with it.

Well, what they've been saying is more than just an economic agreement that's strategic for the region, but they're talking a lot about the cooperation, the people to people links, the culture, the sport. I think there's a feeling is building as one of the highest quality deals they've done, not because we are a large economy, but of the detail that was put in. And Mike, there's a lot of pride that it was done in nine months. Piers Royale, my counterpart, said. We have done this quickly, but we didn't touch corners. We haven't compromised in quality. It's had a lot of coverage in India.

No, I don't. Labour has supported it, which is very helpful. It'll be tabled in Parliament Tuesday, so your day there now, and it'll go up to the committee. There'll be interest from the public because it's a bigger deal, but there should be. We'll get it back as quickly as we can, and it's the Indian government and I were committed to trying to get it in place as quickly as possible this year so we can get those benefits of the extra stuff the Europeans got through that. must be the nation's treatment so it'll be head down bum up and going as hard as we can to make sure every New Zealand can benefit from this free trade agreement not

Well, with every country, you negotiate an agreement. They raise what they want, we raise what we want. In the case of India, we are meeting our obligation. What we negotiated and they asked for, we agreed with, we're doing. And so every agreement is different. But ultimately, if somebody wants to come to New Zealand or anyone in the world, they can apply for a visa and on the merits they get it or they don't. But there is no misunderstanding. with the Indian government both sides know what we've negotiated the legal scrub has been done we're signing it we're putting in parliament we want it in force as soon as we can so Kiwis can start benefiting

It is aspirational. The Indian High Commissioner to New Zealand two months ago in public to the media said this is an aspiration. The only commitment the New Zealand government has taken on is to promote and we will do that, we'll promote, we'll help, we'll do missions as we always do. We have not made a commitment to invest money, not on behalf of the private sector or the government, and we wouldn't do that because we don't have the ability to. It is merely only to promote. The legal advice shows that. Is that labour seen as the treaty done?

You're absolutely right. But the actual reason we want to get it underway very quickly is we have a couple of most favoured nation clauses in our negotiated text, which mean if India gives better conditions in wine or services trade to another nation, they must automatically give it to us as long as our agreement is already enforced. So for wine, they gave the EU better access, lower tariff rates. then they gave us we get that automatically for services they gave a much bigger deal because you know Europe's three or four hundred million people they were able to negotiate more and so if we can get it in place before then we win even more but there's another reason for that I met with Indian trade minister again at WTO meeting a couple of weeks ago and he said to me Todd we should get on and sign it so India are very keen to sign and get on with this because they want to make progress I agree with them so I'm working through the You know, working through this with Labour, but the best place for there to be scrutiny is an open air in public in Parliament. So we will be signing it. We then get to table the agreement in Parliament and everybody, you know, you, Labour, every party in Parliament gets to look at this and make a decision for themselves. So we're doing this in good faith because trade is bipartisan, but we will be signing the deal and tabling in Parliament. So if there's. So everyone can have a look.

That's right. Well, it was 10% and when it went to 15, then it's back to 10. Look, I think what's happening is the US looking at other legal means to put that tariff war back in place. The 10% after the court found President Trump had not used the right legal base for tariffs were illegal. There's, you know, they're going to 10% for 150 days. So I think that they are looking at everything they can for all countries in the world. were to put tariffs back on place and have them stay there. I raised this lamb with Jamison Greer a couple of weeks ago again at WSO when I met with him and said we're not doing any harm there at all. In fact, what New Zealand has done is increased consumption and the price has gone up, which is good for your farmers. He said it's a very long process they'll go through. They send it off to another group to see if there is actually any harm being done. A report will come to him and then he'll make a decision. We've committed to working closely with them on this. I'll be sending officials up to Washington to meet in person and go through the detail. New Zealand lamb is not doing harm in that market, but it's a pretty political place at the moment. So we'll be here making a very, very strong case along with Australia, actually. And I know that the meat export sector is behind us. They're going to play their part as well. Before any tariffs are put in place, I'll have a chance to meet with. that with Jamison Greer again to make the case but we're also in that position as we have been for a while now whatever the president decides the president decides